Thursday, November 6, 2008

In the wake of Proposition 8

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"Common sense, and concern for the common good, trumped ideology, bigotry and power politics here in California," said Brian Brown, executive director of the National Organization for Marriage in California.

Okay, supporters of Proposition 8 have every right to be pleased right now I suppose. But that doesn't mean they can discard the definitions of words and say whatever the hell they want and think they're making sense at all.

Ideology was not trumped with the passage of Prop 8. This twisted ideology of what religious freaks think marriage should be is what won the day out there.

Bigotry was not trumped! Bigotry won the day.

1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

Proposition 8 is the definition of bigotry!

Power Politics was certainly not trumped here! The campaign was won plain and simple, by the side with more money. Just as every campaign is won. Supporters of Proposition 8 were louder and spent more money. Not enough people came out against 8 soon enough to make a difference. The fear campaign initiated by Yes on 8 was enormous, ubiquitous and complete. And complete bullshit. Even here in Utah I heard all about it - saw more than I wanted to see.

Here is my question: How is that those who think homosexuality is wrong can spend years denouncing gays for their promiscuous lifestyle, then turn around and deny them the right to legitimize their relationships? The two ideas completely oppose one another! And why is it that religious groups want government to stay out of schools when school prayer is at stake, but when marriage curriculum becomes an issue (which quite possibly isn't actually an issue, just another fear tactic used by Proposition 8 supporters), now government should step in and dictate that schools teach only heterosexual marriage?

Another awesome quote from Brian Brown, apparently a man who didn't pass English in high school: "Government did not create marriage, and neither politicians nor legislators have the right to redefine its basic meaning,"

Interesting Mr Brown... so asking the state of California to impose a constitutional amendment isn't involving government in the definition of marriage? This guy's an idiot.

The situation is this: Homosexual couples and families are reality. To say they can't get married does nothing to stop them from becoming couples and families. So now Christians are not performing some noble act of ridding the world of an abomination. They're merely in the business of destroying families. How ironic.

Well if more than half of California (and Arizona and Florida - I'm really disgusted at this point) wants to deny homosexual couples the right to commit their lives to their partners in a sacred and ceremonial way, they've succeeded, for now. But lets call a spade a spade: They're bigots. Plain and simple.

Update: I just emailed this directly to Brian Brown.


  1. Very well stated! I couldn't agree more, It's merely a union of church and state in a law like this. They were so worried that gay couples would request that they can get married in their churches, so they passed around the donation plate, and all those brainwashed believers pulled out their wallets. "Gay people aren't getting married in my church!" Honestly, homosexual couples that are going to get married, are more likely to get married at a private venue anyway. The only reason they would choose to get married in a church is if they wanted to ruffle some feathers, and even then, it may not be worth it to them, so they'd probably just stay away anyhow.

  2. As Obama told the story about the lady who was 106 years old, and lived through a time where she couldn't vote because she was a woman, and she couldn't vote because of her race. And I thought to myself - she has come a long way. Women can vote, and people of other races can vote.

    However, we still live in a time where people are concerned about two people of the same sex getting married, and human beings - which are supposed to be the creature that is FREE the most on this earth - are denying them that option. While I have different views of marriage anyways, and if you love someone - legal recognition, a piece of a paper, a ring, none of that is going to make you love someone even more than you loved them before, etc.. But I can understand why people want to do it, and people of the same sex should have the option/right to do that.

    What I don't understand is why it's a big deal? It is two thousand fucking eight, people. It scares the hell out of me that we live in a world where we can just live and let live. If someone wants to marry someone of the same sex, it doesn't effect me.

    It doesn't effect what the weather is going to be like. It doesn't effect if I'm going to get in a car accident that day. If Geraldo Rivera and Phil Donahue decided they wanted to get married (not that either of them would, just using an analogy here) it doesn't effect me in any way, shape or form, just like it doesn't effect me if Madonna and Alex Rodriguez end up getting married.

    It doesn't matter. I don't know them. I'm never going to know them. Ever! It's not going to effect how I drive to work, it's not going to effect how I spend my Friday nights.

    So what in the bluest of blue fucks does anyone care if two people from the same sex get married? It frightens me that like I said, it's two thousand eight, and we're STILL living in a world where we're denying people the option to do certain things, without any thought process behind it other than, well, marriage should be between a man and a woman. Uh, no.

    Marriage should be between whoever the blue hell wants to do it. No matter their sex, sexual orientation, race, political or religious views, favorite sports team, favorite kind of ice cream.

    Yes, Obama, we've come along way since the woman you spoke about on Tuesday night.

    But we're not even close to being where we should, and it's sad.

    I see far too many men and women get married and the relationship doesn't work and they end up getting divorced. They ultimately have kids and it effects THEIR kids lives and everyone around them. And in some cases, sadly, the relationship deterioriates into violence. I don't know how many stories I've heard on the news where someone gets abused, and in some cases, someone ends up losing their lives.

    Could that happen to people who enter into marriage that are of the same sex? You bet. But should we be scared of it? Nope. That should be their right. If people that are heterosexual can get married and fuck up their lives, then the option should be there for people that are homosexual, too.

    Sadly, we still live in a time where we're denying other people rights. We've come a long way, yes. But we have a long, long way to go.


  3. First of all, all of us Californians who gave all the money that we could to support a cause to keep our children as innocent as long as possible, to say in no way would it be brought into schools is ignorant. This is why- if prop 8 hadn't passed The Gay lifestyle would be appropriate in the eyes of every area in our lives including school it would mean that they could talk about it and force us as Christian and non Christian to let our children be included in these teachings unless we forked out money for private or stayed at home to teach (and some don't have that decision to make) Things in California already started happening a group of kids went on our tax dollars to a gay wedding, a school had Gay day without parent notification. Books were being read about what's in a family! I also would like to say after reading in a recent article its not about hiding them, its about the fact that my 5 yr old doesn't need to worry about any of that including marriage between a man and a woman. Also as far as government being involved in marriage this Brian guy is correct God MADE marriage he was the creator of it and he said it's between a man and a woman he made woman from man and said because of this a man will leave his parents and cleave to his WIFE!!! To put it in a different light for those of you who don't believe in God or that God wrote the bible, it still was written by men who believed in God and helped create the Bible and said this is ours and we have made a union between a man and a woman because we believe God said this to us as the true meaning of marriage. Government always likes to take control of everything, and your right we should be fighting to bring it back to the church as God intended. I am all for doing away with the whole marriage license thing myself, all I need is God to say im married to say my vows in his presence. Now because the government has control we have to have these stupid papers for tax purposes, social security, death stuff Etc. Many people including myself made a decision to make a stand for what God wanted, we know that God does not hate anyone and is not saying anyone who is Gay has no right to be happy, God and all of us prop 8 supporters were simply saying being gay is a sin and its a sin the enemy wants people to believe they were born with and have no way out of. I believe its one of his biggest tricks Satan has created, and I know a lot of people who once were gay and aren't anymore. My sister in law was one and she has a huge testimony to that. A lot of people are so intolerant of our beliefs and our stance on what we know our bible says about being Gay and I think that is completely wrong. As far as why we don't make a huge issue about prayer being taken out of the schools is because were not stupid, their are millions of different kids in our schools with different beliefs and backgrounds I believe school especially public is a place of learning not politics and religion, and we need to keep it that way. This was a battle for me about my kids mostly and I'll do anything for my kids, and if that makes me look like a prejudice Bigot I don't care All I care about is when I get to heaven and God asks me that one question, what did you do with what I gave you? I can say I used my Voice Lord I spoke for you and fought for your word.

    I really love that you put the definition of Bigotry down, we all need to really read this "a intolerance of Creed" This is what creed means:

    n 1: any system of principles or beliefs [syn: credo]
    2: the body of teachings of a religious group that are
    generally accepted by that group [syn: religious doctrine,
    church doctrine, gospel]

    Creed ..Creed.. (kr[=e]d), n. [OE. credo, crede, AS. creda, fr. L.
    credo I believe, at the beginning of the Apostles' creed, fr.
    credere to believe; akin to OIr. cretim I believe, and Skr.
    [,c]raddadh[=a]mi; [,c]rat trust + dh[=a] to put. See Do,
    v. t., and cf. Credo, Grant.]
    1. A definite summary of what is believed; esp., a summary of
    the articles of Christian faith; a confession of faith for
    public use; esp., one which is brief and comprehensive.

    Creed was actually meant to be used as faith, and it actually comes from the Bible, as well as the word belief. Proposition 8 was only a battle of a difference of opinions we find it every where in the world.

    If Christians or non Christians were completely intolerant of homosexuals it would be worse, and what we said was if it becomes legal we will be just like mass. being sued left and right because then no one would be tolerant of our beliefs Christian doctors having to give babies to gay couples and photographers having to close shop if they refuse to shoot gay couples weddings, religious adoption agencies closing doors, and parents going to jail for standing up on "I just want notification". No on prop 8 said this wouldn't happen but take a long hard look at the many lives be shattered by it in mass. Do the people of NO on prop 8 think were that naive to think it wouldn't. We as Christians would have no rights to teach our kids what we believe and to me that's not fair. Teach what you believe in the privacy of your own homes and learn about God and the bible at church and keep it out of our schools and businesses.

    As far as all of us being Freaks its actually a comment I don't mind if people call me a Jesus freak. I know that means I'm right where I need to be.

    Maybe you should look up all the things the people no on prop 8 had been doing to the other side, tearing down signs, writing the most horrible things for our kids to see on them, beating people up, and last but not least letting their dogs attack them. So I guess that's tolerant and mature too right? I had to replace my sign many many times or fix it, those things cost money and to me it was very disrespectful and intolerant of my opinion on my private property that someone actually really had the nerve to step foot there and take something that belonged to me.

    Definition of a hate crime: : any of various crimes (as assault or defacement of property) when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group.

    Hate: 1 a: intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury b: extreme dislike or antipathy :

    Also Id like to say if anyone showed actual hate against someone who was gay or christian shame on them because thats not what Jesus would have done. This should have been a peaceful thing and wasn't and thats very sad.

  4. I can honestly see the problems Aime. I guess if I were a faithful Christian I would be upset too, to have the government possibly mandating the actions of private agencies. But this doesn't seem any better to me, having the government step in on the other side.
    I suppose there's no way to argue with a Christian about who "created" marriage. I would say marriage was around looooong before it was ever commandeered by any religious group, just because it's been around longer than recorded history. One obvious reason for it was the creation of offspring. But a far more important reason for marriage was the cementing of alliances.
    This is the problem though. To a Christian, the world began with God, Adam and Eve. And God gave Eve to Adam and that was that. So to say marriage was around before God, is ridiculous. But to someone like me, marriage was a social construct long before it was religious. So the problem lies in a difference of fundamental belief.
    If churches could say we don't believe in Gay marriage, we don't support it and we will not accept it in our institutions - while still leaving government free to recognize marital unions between gay couples... AND government could say Gay marriage is allowed under our rules and circumstances while still allowing churches the freedom to keep themselves apart from that, then this would be different. But laws and law-suits and angry people on both sides want to make a point out of it all. My husband thinks a gay couple wouldn't even WANT to be married in a church that didn't want them there anyway so what's the big deal? ... I tend to disagree. I think some people would still want to make that stand for their side and would even be willing to use their union as a public statement or point-maker so to speak, rather than a personal action.
    I just don't think there will ever be a solution because too many people are intolerant on both sides. If everyone would understand that their personal views are not the only views out there, and be more accepting, this wouldn't be an issue! But it becomes a competition of who can gain more ground in the war. It's just despicable.
    And despite my support of the No side, I am sorry your yard signs were destroyed Aime.

  5. Uh, I actually read that first quote and stopped for a second. According to the language I really second-guessed whether it passed or didn't pass because the quote is completely twisted!

    I'm gonna stop there.

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  7. You lost a sign that cost you money, and that is unfortunate. However, please consider the actual people that are homosexual that have been hurt physically or mentally since they decided to let it be known that they were gay. Think about the people who should have the right to enter in the union of marriage with someone of the same sex that are being denied that right by other people that AREN'T even involved in their personal lives on a day to day basis.

    I'm sorry, but to bring up a "sign", is rather laughable, when homosexuals have been ridiculed and hurt physically, mentally and emotionally since day one. And these cases are well publicized. How many college students have been hurt (or even killed) because they were gay?

    Your sign can easily be replaced. Their lives can't.

    Imagine, if you will, if you wanted to marry someone - doesn't matter who - and whether it would happen or not depended on the votes of people who you don't even know. And say they voted against you marrying that person. No matter who it was, same sex or not. You loved the person and you wanted to marry them.

    How would you feel?

    The fact that this is even up for debate is ridiculous. We vote and decide on so many things and yeah, we should have a right to vote on a number of those topics. But not this one.

    It has nothing to do with God. It has nothing to do with a lifestyle.

    It has to do with two people of the same sex who want to marry and have it be "legal" to do so and have it be recognized in the eyes of the law. Imagine if the shoe were on your foot, Aime. And someone told you you couldn't marry someone that you wanted to, no matter who they were.

    How would you feel?

    I'm sorry, but the fact you lost signs... that's unfortunate that people would do that. But it's even more unfortunate that homosexuals - who are human as you or I - are singled out in this fashion.

    That's the real crime here.

    You lost a sign and I guess money. These people lost the right to be married and have their union recognized in the eyes of the law.

    Sorry, there's a huge difference.

  8. well said - i posted about the same issue and had the same response. i believe there will come a time when this is a non-issue and the bigots will disappear like dust in the wind. some issues can only change one death at a time. i used to think such change wasn't possible in my lifetime but we just elected a black president. nuf said.

  9. Yikes, tough issue. Please don't paint all Christians with the same brush though, some of us were as sad as you that 8 passed!

  10. You're absolutely right Jess. I should be clear that I'm disappointed with those that lack the acceptance I value in this situation.
    Some of the people I love and admire most in my life are highly religious people. And while it may not be their religious convictions in particular that make me admire them, those convictions are an integral part of who they are and what makes them admirable. If that makes any sense. ;)

  11. I am honestly dumbfounded as to why this passed? like, just blown away. it just doesn't make sense and it saddens me.

  12. The silver lining of Prop 8 is that it makes more and more people recognize these bigots as the descendants of those who would have kept minorities in the back of the bus or women out of the voting booth. They have always been on the wrong side of history. As long as America continues to exist, tolerance will progress slowly but surely, as it always has, and fifty years from now we could easily have a homosexual president and we'll hi-five each other over how far we've come.

    In the meantime, go see the movie "Milk".